what is reality? Featuring Christopher Bache EN FR

Meet Christopher Bache

Full transcript of the interview:

And eventually, you come out with a certain understanding, at least of the large structure, the nature of reality.

We're not simply creating a new society, or a better society, or a new economy, or a new ecology.

We are actually giving birth to a new form of the human species.

I never expected anything like this to emerge in the work.

I didn't know that this was even possible.

At the subtle level of consciousness, you open up to different levels of collective consciousness.

And so when your individual identity pops, I have had the experience many times of opening up to my species identity, to the collective psyche.


Well, I'm always hesitant to jump into this, because my experiences are based upon shamanic, rigorous use of LSD.

And when everyone hears LSD, they think, oh, the '60s.

They think hallucinations.

They think-- and this is very far from this.

This is really within a therapeutic tradition.

It's within Stan Grof's tradition.

It's the systematic use of these very hyper-intense states of awareness.

And when you engage these states, there are cycles of tremendous purification, tremendous death, and reborn, and death, and reborn.

But if you go through it often enough, deeply enough, there is a progressive initiation into deeper and deeper levels of reality.

And eventually, you come out with a certain understanding, at least of the large structure, the nature of reality.

And it's not easy to summarize, but I mean, I've tried to do it in this book.

I'm just finishing Diamonds from Heaven to describe the progression.

One of the qualities that come out of this vision of cosmology is that there are many, many levels to the cosmos.

The physical world is simply kind of like a dense level.

And of course, there are layers, and layers, and layers within the physical world as we get into the quantum level.

But as you build out into non-physical or extra-physical dimensions, there are levels, and layers, and layers.

And it's a repeated experience.

It's a repeated experience that the lower levels are sourced in the higher levels.

The higher levels, or the deeper levels, are more intelligent, more intense energetically.

And they are more conscious.

So the experience going out into them is you're going into a more conscious, more powerful, more source dimension of existence.

Until eventually, you leave behind time, space, and then there are dimensions which echo time, space, what the Tibetans call the bardo, the intermediate dimensions.

And one can go eventually even beyond all the echoes of time and space and enter what some of the spiritual traditions would call extra-samsaric reality, a reality beyond all the cycles of death and rebirth, and enter in the domain of just pure light, just pure light.

And the quantum physicists say everything, all molecules are ultimately really rooted in light.

Photons are light.

And I find that's true in the domain of consciousness and the universe that one perceives, is that ultimately all physical reality is sourced in an ocean of light, an ocean of radiance.

You can't take your ego into that reality and have an experience of that reality.

You can only enter those realities by surrendering what you were in the lower realities.

And it's not that these lower realities are inferior or bad or evil or anything like that.

It's just that they are more specific manifestation, a progressively individualized manifestation of this larger reality.

So that you reverse the process when you go out into that reality, you have to decouple, let go of a deeper level so that you literally become for hours at a time, a citizen of that level of reality.

You have to stop being Chris Bache.

You have to stop being a human being.

You have to stop being a time-space being at all.

You literally live and breathe the nature of that existence.

There is a sense always of profound homecoming, of profound return.

You know that we came, all existence comes from this reality.

So there's that tremendous sense of stillness, calm, reunion, being restored to your primal wholeness.

And one gets a sense that these levels are constantly infusing and informing this reality.

We have a theory of evolution, which our theories of evolution are partly right and partly deeply incomplete.

We think it's all happening by chance, screened by necessity.

You know, it's all, but my experience is it's not being driven by chance.

I mean, chance has a factor, but there is a tremendous intelligence manifesting itself in the self-emergent quality of time and space.

So there is an intelligence manifesting.

It's not a God outside manipulating, and it's not even like creative design kind of manipulating, but it's a self-arising intelligence, a self-emerging intelligence.

It's manifesting ever more complex forms of life, and it's evolving and it's changing.

One of the other things that comes when you move into these deep dimensions, you move into the deep dimension of the mind, you move into beyond linear time, as we conventionally know it, into deep dimensions of time, and sometimes even beyond any sense of time whatsoever.

But when you're coming in and out of these different states, you get a perspective of that this reality is changing.

We know this, it's changing, but you get a sense of where it's changing too, what the next phase of human evolution might be, and we're going somewhere, and there is an intelligence expressing itself in this process.

And so the end result, there's a sense in which I trust, you just learn to trust where you are, that there is a wisdom in where you are doing what you're doing, and somehow each one of our works contribute to the larger pattern of the creative intelligence manifesting itself inside time and space.

I was totally, I was completely surprised, I never expected anything like this to emerge in the work.

I didn't know that this was even possible.

I had never seen it addressed in the psychedelic literature.

But when you pop the bubble of the ego, when you pop, you don't simply drip drop into unit of consciousness or oneness consciousness, but you open up into different, at the subtle level of consciousness, you open up to different levels of collective consciousness.

And so when your individual identity pops, I have had the experience many times of opening up to my species identity, opening up to the collective psyche, and I found that that species consciousness is coherent.

Carl Jung was right, there is a coherent species mind, and as the shamanic traditions, that when you touch the species mind in deep states of consciousness, it's only natural that insights into what the evolutionary progression of the growth process of the species is.

And I, over many years, I had repeated experiences doing, taking me deeper and deeper and teaching me, there was a consciousness teaching me what's what, what's happening, and showing me that the visions that came, I'll just report the visions for whatever, was that humanity was coming into a time of tremendous fruition, that we had been developing for hundreds of thousands of years, and we were coming to a pinnacle, a tremendous great awakening, an opening of a new level of consciousness in humanity, and that this was a pivot point, everything we had accomplished would kind of quickly become passe as we pivoted into this new platform of consciousness.

But for there to be a great awakening, a birth of a new consciousness, there must first take place a great death.

As the mystics go through a dark night of the soul to awaken into divine consciousness, humanity was going to have to go through a great dark night of the soul, of our collective soul, in order to purge, purge the karmic residue of all of its egoic driven competitions, hostility, violence, the things we do to each other.

The things we can't take that, this world we live in is a world built by ego.

We are moving into a larger reality, and we have to let go of all those old restrictive poisons.

And I think we're coming into a time of great crisis.

The visions show me that we're coming into a dark night of purification.

I don't know the details of it, I just have experienced it.

I think it's going to be starting in the 21st century.

I don't know how long it will last, I don't know how long we'll go through, but it's a time of loss of control, of breaking down, of destructuring of life as we know it.

But coming out of it, we're not simply creating a new society, or a better society, or a new economy, or a new ecology.

We are actually giving birth to a new form of the human species.

The fundamental architecture of the collective psyche is pivoting, and as it pivots, we are giving birth to a new body of life, a new blueprint for humanity.

And the way I've seen it manifesting is in the visions, in my psychedelic experience and other experiences, reincarnation is just accepted as a matter of fact.

So we die, we're born, we die, we're born, keeps going up, keep going on.

And lifetime by lifetime, we rewind, we're collecting more and more experiences.

And in my sessions, they reached a point where I was reintegrating all my former lives were coming together, like winding kite string around a spool.

And it hit a critical mass, and it exploded into the most brilliant, luminous diamond light in my heart.

It just exploded in me.

And I think what I saw in this experience, what I was being shown, was where reincarnation is taking us.

We're not just going through class from the first grade to the second grade to the third grade.

We're not simply adding incremental improvements in our life.

But sooner or later, we come to a fusion point where all of our souls, all of our lives, all of our experiences hit a critical mass and are fused.

And when that happens, the soul awakens inside the human body.

When we die, we return to the soul, the mega consciousness that holds us all.

But this is an awakening of the soul inside time and space.

And I think that's the future human that we're birthing.

We've been gestating this consciousness for hundreds of thousands of years.

We're giving birth to it now.

But most of the work has been done.

Most of the work has been done in history.

But now it's time for all of this inner development to manifest.

And I think when we awaken as souls, when our deep consciousness awakens, it will change life on our planet.

Because it will make our minds safe because our heart will be open and we will no longer represent a danger to each other and to other species on the planet.

And there'll be a much easier communion with the deeper creative consciousness of the universe.

So a time of tremendous creativity, acceleration of creativity.

And in my very end of this long 20-year journey, in the very last sessions, I was put through a tremendous strip-down process and thrown deep into the future.

I don't know how far, but deep into the future and allowed to experience, it felt like I was allowed to try on that form and the most beautiful, beautiful being, just extraordinary being.

And it's really important for us to understand that we are giving birth to something magnificent because if we don't have a vision of what's happening in history, we will get swallowed by the pain of the purification that's coming.

And we must hold firm, we must stand firm and not yield to despair.

A mother giving birth is in terrible pain, but she knows what she's doing.

We are giving birth, we have to understand what we're doing.

I mean, we have a tendency in our theologies and in our stories that we tell to explain our existence, to think very statically of human nature 'cause it doesn't seem to be changing too fast.

So we think of static human nature, static human nature.

But when you expand the horizon, even intellectually or with imagination or experientially, when you expand the time horizon, at least what I was given to experience was that humanity is built for speed and it has to do with each of our learning cycles for a hundred years, a hundred years, a hundred years, a hundred years.

But the universe does not think in a hundred year increments.

The universe thinks in billions and trillions of year increments.

And from that perspective, humanity seems to be designed for accelerated evolution so that in the long scale, we're moving very fast through time.

So all of our history, all the pains we've done, the mistakes we've made, the things we've done, we're carrying them in our person, but we can shed them.

If our concentration, if our awareness is intensified, as I think they will be intensified in the trials that are coming, if we pay attention and do our work well and live very deeply, we can shed that past very quickly.

And as we shed that past, we can enact the soul in history.

He had the, he tells his story in "Four Journeys" of being taken into the not great distant future.

He later said it was about a thousand years out where when he was taken into that future and looked back that all of the bardo was empty.

All of the, all the souls in the bardo were emptied.

And there was a much cleaner and clearer communion between physical beings and consciousness, spiritual consciousness.

And there was a, it was easier to kind of do a temporary visit to kind of come into, share a physical life form, leave it alone, come back into spiritual reality.

And I think that's kind of, that's another way of describing what we're going to.

Because the bardo is this layered reality surrounding time and space where it's filled with soul fragments, unintegrated pieces of experiences at different levels.

And as we become more integrated, as we become more coherent, we're emptying the bardo.

And as we empty the bardo, the communion between deep spiritual reality and physical reality becomes easier, becomes clearer.

We've seen it happen for individuals.

There are great saints who are translucent to this reality.

But I think they are foreshadowing what's happening for the whole species.

We're going into that direction as an entire species.

I think we have an extraordinary future ahead.

We have to, we have to, some hard work, but underneath, yeah.

And the other thing that has come through my sessions is that the divine is very happy with us.

And everything is right on time.

I mean, we have, we make so many mistakes.

We do so many things badly.

But in the long view, the sense I get is that we're working hard and we're doing a pretty good job.

And it's gonna be more hard work, but overall, the divine is very pleased.

And again, I hate to use the word the divine, but the creative consciousness of the universe is very happy with what's happening.